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Dragon
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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:33 pm

The Pool (WIP):

1.
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Adamant
Intimidate
216 Hp, 16 Atk, 172 Def, 104 Spe
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Return
- Taunt

2.
Gengar @ Life Orb
Timid
Levitate
6 Hp, 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spe
- Hypnosis
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast

3.
Metagross @ Shuca Berry
Adamant
Clear Body
244 hp, 252 Atk, 12 Def
- Thunderpunch
- Earthquake
- Meteor Mash
- Explosion

4.
Salamence @ Choice Specs/Expert Belt
Modest
Intimidate
6 Hp, 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Hydro Pump
- Dragon Pulse

5.
Jolteon @ Leftovers
Timid
Volt Absorb
6 Hp, 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spd
- Yawn
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Baton Pass

6.
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Poison Heal
Jolly
12 Hp, 252 Atk, 240 Spe
- Bulk Up
- Mach Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Spore

7.
Heatran @ Choice Specs
Modest
Flash Fire
4 Hp, 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spe
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Pulse
- Earth power
- Explosion

8.
Lucario @ Life Orb
Adamant
Inner Focus
4 Hp, 252 Atk, 252 Spd
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Crunch
- Extremespeed

9.
Weavile @ Expert Eelt
Jolly
Pressure
40 Hp, 252 Atk, 216 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Night Slash
- Brick Break
- Ice Shard

10.
Deoxys-S @ Expert Belt
Naive
Pressure
4 Atk, 252 Spd, 252 Sp.Atk
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Superpower
- Shadow Ball

11.
Garchomp @ Yache Berry
Jolly
Sand Veil
4 Hp, 252 Atk, 252 Spd
- Swords Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang

12.
Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Adamant
Arena Trap
6 Hp, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Aerial Ace
- Sucker Punch

13.
Starmie @ Leftovers
Timid
Natural Cure
172 Hp, 120 Sp.Atk, 216 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

14.
Heracross @ Flame Orb
Adamant
Guts
6 Hp, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge

15.
Scizor @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Adamant
Swarm
106 Hp, 252 Atk, 152 Spe
- Agility
- Baton Pass
- X-Scissor
- Iron Head

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Last edited by Dragon on Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:21 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:21 pm

i typed a whole assload before, but my computer overheated and force quit a few applications, including my browser.
i'll just give you my preferred sets, since i won't have time to write as much as i did before.


metagross @ shuca berry
adamant
clear body
252 hp, 252 atk, 6 def
-thunderpunch
-earthquake
-meteor mash
-bullet punch


lucario @ life orb
adamant
inner focus
6 hp, 252 atk, 252 spe
-close combat
-extremespeed
-crunch
-swords dance


deoxys-s @ life orb/expert belt
naive
pressure
6 atk, 252 spatk, 252 spe
-ice beam
-thunderbolt/grass knot
-superpower
-shadow ball


garchomp @ yache berry/life orb
jolly

sand veil
6 hp, 252 atk, 252 spe
-swords dance
-dragon claw/outrage
-fire fang
-earthquake


salamence @ choice specs
modest
intimidate
6 hp, 252 spatk, 252 spe
-draco meteor
-fire blast
-hydro pump
-dragon pulse

(i would usually recommend mixmence, but you'll be lacking a wisher, so mixmence won't survive long enough to sweep properly.)


dugtrio @ choice band
adamant
arena trap
6 hp, 252 atk, 252 spe
-earthquake
-stone edge
-aerial ace
-sucker punch

everything else is fine.

what i'd like you to do before i write up rmt #2:
pick out a team of 6 that will serve as your doubles team versus the steel gym. the team must include gengar and dugtrio, and a working strategy. that's all. i don't need you to post any movesets, since we've conveniently got all of them right here. ^-^

after you do that:
i'll post rmt #2, quite obviously, heh. ._.
the theme for rmt #2 is "what makes a successful offensive team?"

the rmt will include:
-my proposals for the three empty pool slots (i plan to include my proposals in the team itself)
-comments on the doubles team
-ideas on how to keep the game fast-paced and focused on offensive play
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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:47 am

Steel Gym Roster

Magnezone Heatran Lucario Steelix Scizor
Empoleon Aggron Metagross Skarmory Azelf

My Team (affectionately dubbed Team Earthquake):

Dugtrio Gengar Salamence Garchomp
Gyrados Heatran



Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Adamant
Arena Trap
6 Hp, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Aerial Ace
- Sucker Punch

Obviously, the main force against the Steel gym. Earthquake is at least super effective on everyone but Skarmory, Scizor, and Azelf (for which we have both Sucker Punch and Gengar). Arena Trap makes sure that they can't switch out to a counter...not like there is one...


Gengar @ Life Orb
Timid
Levitate
6 Hp, 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spe
- Hypnosis
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast

The other part to the main force against the Steel gym. Levitate means no Earthquake backfiring, Hypnosis puts one of my problem opponents out of commission (like Scizor or Heatran), Shadow Ball OHKO's Azelf, Thunderbolt takes care of Skarmory and Empoleon, and Focus Blast takes care of other Steels weak to Fighting. Easy as pie.


Salamence @ Life Orb
Modest
Intimidate
6 Hp, 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump
- Earthquake

Immune to Earthquake, and resists most of the stuff Dugtrio's weak to (should the need to switch arise). Earthquake replaces Dragon Pulse, and Life Orb replaces Choice Specs for this match as everything (with the exception of Draco Meteor) is super effective against something. Earthquake covers for Dugtrio if I switched out with him, and Fire Blast obliterates Scizor whom can't be hit super effectively by either of the leads.


Garchomp @ Life Orb
Jolly
Sand Veil
6 Hp, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw/Outrage
- Fire Fang
- Earthquake

Thoroughly rapes the opposing team. Fire Fang and Earthquake covers everything. Just watch out for Scarftran, if it has Dragon Pulse.


Gyarados @ Leftovers
Adamant
Intimidate
216 Hp, 16 Atk, 172 Def, 104 Spe
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake (previously Return)
- Taunt

At the risk of adding yet another Flying-type, Gyarados should do pretty well. Again, Earthquake immune, and Taunt could help if someone tries to status, SR, or SD in the case of Lucario. He should be able to comfortably pull off a few DD's thanks to support from whoever he's paired with and then Waterfall/Earthquake stuff to death. Something worth noting is that he's probably the best Heatran counter that's immune to Earthquake.


Heatran @ Choice Specs
Modest
Flash Fire
40 Hp, 252 Sp.Atk, 216 Spe
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Pulse
- Earth power
- Explosion

Covers the Dragon and Ice weaknesses that Salamence and Garchomp have (though I don't see any Ice attacks coming from a Steel team...), and Earth Power/Flamethrower can sweep everything. It might help to replace Dragon Pulse/Explosion for this Gym, since they won't help much, but I can't seem to think of anything else to use. Perhaps making it a Rest Talker and replace Choice Specs for Leftovers/Life Orb for the match?

Slight problems for this team (that I've noticed):
- If his Heatran has a Choice Scarf (which given it's apparent Earthquake weakness, probably does) and comes in on a Fire attack, somebody's going to take some damage. It may have to force Dugtrio to switch, which is problematic.
- Magnezone could prove problematic if it uses Magnet Rise, but I highly doubt it'll get the opportunity.
- Dugtrio/Gengar don't have a move super effective on Scizor, though this is hardly that much of a problem.

afro And that's what I came up with!

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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:56 pm

RMT #2: is taunt a required presence on offensively-based teams? (or, what exactly makes a successful offensive team?)

overview


intro
husk's extremely successful offensive team, astral projection, used a taunt aerodactyl to put the opponent on the attack from the beginning of the match. the ever-popular gyarados, which i used in my own offensive team, is perhaps the most iconic proof in the entire metagame of taunt's effectiveness in dictating play: in d/p play, almost every team carries thunderbolt or hidden power electric. gyarados even single-handedly threw electivire straight into the OU tier with its ability to absorb the attacks aimed at gyarados and turn them into a 6-0 sweep.

however, the usage of electivire is demonstrative of the other common element with offensive teams, and that is posing an immediate sweeping threat to the opponent from the very beginning of each match. for example, bulkydos leads don't switch out of aerodactyl because taunt would render them useless; they switch out because aerodactyl represents a chance to OHKO with stone edge. RMT #2 will attempt to take advantage of this "threatening factor" and create a strategy which does not use taunt to keep the opponent on the offensive.

game plan
the team recreates the offensive threat experience by leading with jolteon, one of the fastest pokemon in the game. the focus here was to create an impromptu team using the limited options in the pool of fifteen, while retaining common metagame threats in mind: avoiding stealth rock and other type weaknesses, providing both revenge-killing solutions and acceptable defensive buffers to threats, status protection, and most obviously, a way to win. the direct-win strategy is simple: pass a substitute to scizor, use agility, pass to any attacker, and sweep. the proper execution of this combination is up to the way you read your opponent.

in depth

jolteon @ leftovers/focus sash
timid
volt absorb
6 hp, 252 spatk, 252 spe
-yawn
-substitute
-baton pass
-thunderbolt

leading with jolteon recreates the experience provided by the ever-popular aerodactyl lead: at base 130 spe, only choice scarfers, fellow base 130s, and deoxys-s outspeed her. anything slower usually can't risk eating a thunderbolt or hidden power ice, or will be otherwise rendered useless once jolteon throws up a sub. generally, this will allow you to subpass to the pokemon of your choice right off the bat. yawnpassing will be sufficient for midgame use.

leftovers are best on yawnjolt for mid- to late-game use, but in the lead, focus sash is the only way to ensure even footing with opposing sash aerodactyl. pick your poison.


scizor @ leftovers/life orb
adamant
swarm
106 hp, 252 atk, 152 spe
-agility
-baton pass
-x-scissor
-iron head

very simple. if you've ever studied baton pass chains, having scizor on board makes for a mini-chain. 152 evs gives 204 spe, which allows you to outspeed scarfcross, agiligross, and ludicolo in the rain after an agility. yay! you can actually attempt a sweep with this set too.


heracross @ flame orb
adamant
guts
6 hp, 252 atk, 252 spe
-swords dance
-megahorn
-close combat
-stone edge

if you want to attempt a sweep any earlier than endgame, you absolutely need agility support: a single agility will allow you to outrun virtually everything in the game; the only pokemon that best 538 spe are choice scarf 252 base 130s and above. there is no need to describe the massive attacking potential in this set.


starmie @ leftovers
timid
natural cure
172 hp, 120 spatk, 216 spe
-ice beam
-surf
-rapid spin
-recover

meant to be a combination rapid spinner and garchomp counter: 120 spatk evs are needed to ohko chomp with ice beam. happily outspeeds the land shark and is just sturdy enough to take a single swords danced dragon claw, without life orb. provides an extra ice resist. it can act as a sweeping backup: starmie and jolteon pair up nicely to create an unresisted attacking combination in surf, thunderbolt and ice beam.


heatran @ choice specs/life orb
modest
flash fire
40 hp, 252 spatk, 216 spe
-flamethrower
-dragon pulse
-earth power
-explosion

specs or orb? your choice. either one works here. pass it an agility to get at least one or two quick KOs.


salamence @ choice specs/life orb
modest
intimidate
6 hp, 252 spatk, 252 spe
-draco meteor
-flamethrower
-hydro pump
-dragon pulse

with life orb, it needs a substitute, and not much else, to sweep. throw in an agility and it'll be even better. draco meteor those nasty physical walls into oblivion.

discussion
recreating the effects of taunt on a normally defensive team
as i described in "game plan", one of the objects here was to demonstrate how you can simply use items to change the entire role of a single pokemon with a locked moveset and ev spread. this is exemplified through the suggestion of life orb on salamence and heatran. it also shows the required synergy for a team to succeed: for example, choice specs salamence and heatran would definitely not sweep as much as their life orb alternatives, when provided with agility boosts and substitutes. these examples are meant to teach the difference between a group of strong pokemon with few common weaknesses, and a true team.

the presence of starmie, scizor, and jolteon represent the use of relatively nonoffensive strategies on mostly offensive pokemon. starmie and jolteon remain capable special sweepers, although their foci are supposed to be rapid spinning and subpassing, respectively; agility sweeping scizor was always meant as a physical sweeper--baton pass is merely an afterthought.

these are reflections of the philosophy utilized by leading aerodactyl: a pokemon once used as a physical sweeper now fulfills a role as a stealth rocker and pseudo-"defensive" anti-lead.

comments on the steel-killing doubles team
with dugtrio, garchomp, and salamence on board, you boast a whopping total of three weaknesses to ice. not a problem, though, why? because none of your victims carry ice-type attacks...right? or do they? it's fairly easy to get a hidden power ice modest heatran, and perhaps even easier to get a hidden power ice magnezone. regardless, this shouldn't be a problem anyway. the only way they could even hope to get in any damage is if his heatran is wearing a scarf and revenge kills your dugtrio, in which case you bring in gyarados and earn a free set up turn leading straight to a good game.

dugtrio
be aware that arena trap does not affect flying-types or levitators. therefore, it may be necessary to wait until lategame to kill skarmory and/or azelf, but that doesn't matter much. otherwise, duggy is still cute and awesome like always. i love the little thing and you should too.

gengar
life orb gengar is so versatile i don't need to comment. he is overall a pretty cool dude and i would enjoy his company on a trip to the beach. we would chill out underneath an umbrella and play boggle.

salamence
consider expert belt over life orb: it'll give you room to survive powerful, neutral hits, like magnezone's thunderbolt. i also apologize for recommending fire blast: modest salamence has more than enough power to vastly prefer using flamethrower. also, don't bother with earthquake. no earthquake. bad dragon. modest mence's attack is pathetic, and there's no one that would survive a super effective hydro pump or flamethrower. if you've run out of pp on salamence and he's your only option left, you're probably going to lose anyway.

garchomp
do consider a yache berry on this garchomp. yache will help ease your prediction just a teensy bit, and potentially allow you to come in on magnezone with no fear. i also recommend breeding an outrage garchomp--the only time you won't be able to use it is in the normal, doubles gym.

gyarados
awesome. with the exception of azelf, metagross, and magnezone, gyarados can practically come in, dance up, and sweep on anything he sends out. replacing return for earthquake is a smart choice: after all, bulkydos can use virtually any combo of two attacks to good effect.

heatran
consider running a 252/252 spread on heatran. why? this will allow you to switch specs for a scarf very easily and maximize his use. also, i read here:
Quote :
It might help to replace Dragon Pulse/Explosion for this Gym, since they won't help much, but I can't seem to think of anything else to use.
don't do that. i read a similar thing in your salamence rework, but it'll just end up being a waste of time on your part, and a waste of "resources". whatever happens, though, i would like to point out that while scarftran is much more complex a choice pokemon to use than specstran, it is by far the better choice and will serve you well if you use him right. who knows, you may just outspeed his scarftran for the super effective earth power.

goals for RMT #2: revisited
1. to create a team that uses both standalone offense strategy, but allows room for strategies to overlap. all of these pokemon evidently have the potential to be standalone sweepers, yet putting them together, they can create a baton pass chain that is nearly unstoppable by all but whirlwind/roar. most common taunters are overwhelmed by the offense presented if any one pokemon is indeed forced to attack.
2. to create a team whose pokemon can fit well into a totally different team strategy. this certainly is true. our "known" pokemon have been shown to be successful in other strategies, while the three new ones are easily usable: sd guts-cross is a moderately uncommon, but otherwise successful physical sweeper; rapid spin starmie fits a niche in almost any team; and agility scizor is always a welcome baton passing asset to any offensive strategy, comparable to the use of ninjask.
3. to create a team which, while being potentially successful in a single battle situation, can also succeed in any double battle situation, both 6v6 and 4v4 environments. i admit i misfired a little bit with this goal, but it's obvious you won't need any help building a team for the normal gym. i wholly agree with your choices for the team--read up on doubles RMTs or strategy articles, and you should be absolutely fine.

goals for RMT #3
1. to finalize our thoughts on, and our formation of the 15 pool.
2. to discuss the relative unimportance of "super effective" attacks and provide advice on moveset retention.
3. to hopefully incorporate some of the yet-unused pokemon into a team, and thus summarizing their potential in multiple teams.
4. to pinpoint the factors necessary to quickly build a successful, offensive team of 6 from our 15 pool.

in other words, we should be able to the project with rmt #3, and leave you free to start training. ^-^

conclusion
an answer to the question, "what makes a successful offensive team?"


simply put, the key is pure offense. tactics such as taunt are only superior safeguards against anti-stat up strategies like haze or encore; otherwise, a timely substitute or a convenient immunity can effectively counter status moves that taunt otherwise would block: namely, thunder wave, toxic, will-o-wisp, resisted by pokemon like jolteon, breloom, and heatran. as for phazers and encorers, careful prediction will easily eliminate these kinds of anti-sweepers.
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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:50 pm

I have updated the list so it has all 15 members, with optimal items (and situational ones on some). Tell me if I need to change anything.

Which Pokemon absolutely NEED to have 31 IVs in a stat(s)? I need to know ahead of time because that does make quite a difference, especially for Pokemon like TyraniBOAH (to use an example of someone not on this team) who NEEDS 31 IVs in Hp in order to successfully pull off his strategy. It can be the difference between "Ok, it's 'X' is lacking a bit, but at least it has 31 IVs in 'Y'" and "Well, at least I got the right nature and more than 25 IVs in 'X'..." ...If you get what I'm saying. It actually is possible to breed good IVs, but it's rather difficult and time consuming so I'd like to know if I absolutely NEED them to be good ahead of time.

I fear I just packed that whole paragraph with redundancy, but at least you get the point.

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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:08 pm

to make this quick, only dugtrio and starmie REALLY require perfect IVs. most of these do require very close to perfect IVs to be effective, though - these ones i've labeled "highly recommended". some of these are just easier to knock with 31 IVs, but can be done without it, so i've labeled them "recommended". read carefully! ^-^

gyarados: 31 is recommended in atk and spe. if you can't get them, the stats you're looking for are 319 atk & 224 spe. see "sonsaku hakufu" for some advice on hp and defense EV spreads.

jolteon: 31 spe IV is highly recommended. don't accept anything below 28.

breloom: 31 spe IV is recommended for the bulk up set, but if you can't knock it, just do a generic 252/252.

heatran: 31 spe IV highly recommended. 28 IV is the minimum you should accept (run 252 spe).

weavile: 31 spe IV highly recommended. 22 is the minimum you should accept (run 252 spe). unlike breloom, every bit of speed counts on weavile: he is one of the most important speed threats in the entire metagame and EVERYONE prepares for him.

dugtrio: 31 spe IV necessary, same story as weavile. 31 atk IV highly recommended, you don't have much to go over off base 80.

starmie: 31 hp, def, spatk, spe IV necessary. starmie can't reproduce, so it will be difficult to get a legit one; honestly, though, anything less than a perfect starmie is not a true counter. optimizing special attack and speed will let you revenge kill garchomp--make them the priorities. optimizing hp and def will let you take that crucial swords danced dragon claw.

scizor: 31 spe is recommended--you know what speed number you need to shoot for. the atk and hp don't really matter.
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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:02 am

All of them seem "easy" enough to get, but I'm really worried about Starmie. Even with Action Replay, I can't get one with perfect IVs, nor do I have any idea where to find a code to altar IVs...and that would be REALLY be crossing the line for me, as far as my Action Replay morals go No

The only alternative I could think of would be a complex breeding chain involving various Staryu/Starmie and Ditto with perfect IVs in certain stats to slowly pass them down the line, but even that's not guaranteed to work, and it'd surely take forever.

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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:00 am

yeah, i kind of saw that coming. since that's the case:

-the 172 hp evs give 304 hp for an optimal recovery number, but you can ignore them, so 31 IV in hp and def are unnecessary.
-120 spatk evs give 266 spatk, the bare minimum which can ohko garchomp with ice beam. 132 evs would give 269 spatk, guaranteeing an ohko. this means that essentially, any spatk IV that is not a 0 will work, because you can always make up the difference with an appropriate ev spread.
-216 evs give enough speed to outrun timid gengar and other max speed base 110s. this is really the only IV you have to worry about for starmie's functionality: you absolutely must not accept anything below 22, just like weavile.

thus, the worst starmie you can accept is 0/0/0/1/0/22, who would run 6 hp, 252 spatk, 252 spe. makes your job much easier, yes?
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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:08 am

Yay, compromise! That, I can do.

Thanks, Charlotte What a Face

Is the pool looking good?

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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:28 am

it's looking quite all right. the only thing i'm a little worried about so far is metagross--do you have access to one with thunderpunch? i've got this nagging feeling that you don't, since thunderpunch is only obtainable via emerald tutor.

other than him, i'm double-checking EV spreads and seeing if i can't improve them a little, and working on a lineup for the purpose of rmt #3 (last rmt! yay. i'll try to include the finalized gross in the team). i hope to be done by maybe 4 pm est.
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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:36 am

Nifty.

And you're right, I don't have Emerald. Come to think of it, that was why I used Hammer Arm on my last one. Well, I could try to get one from somebody on GTS+, but I doubt that even if it would get any good IVs or the right nature, even if it had Thunderpunch. They're not very good about that...

Stupid move tutors Mad

Well, on the bright side, I managed to get a legit Deoxys from some guy on GTS+. Naturally, it happens to be Brave natured and have 8 Speed IVs, but it can at least serve its purpose as a cover for my real Deoxys-S. So Snake, I don't need your friends anymore. If you already trade it, I actually do have a legit shiny Chansey I can give you if you already traded off your Blissey. Sorry 'bout that...

Oh, and not to be a neeb, but what does RMT actually mean? ^^;

Edit: I don't know if it's a good idea or not, but we may be able to switch out Gross for Jirachi. Just a thought. I actually have a legit one from Colleseum, too albino (which would of course be cover for another with a better natrue/IVs)

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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:53 pm

alternative options for standard shucagross:
-shucagross, pursuit or explosion over thunderpunch.
-agiligross, meteor mash, earthquake, and explosion.
-restalk gross, meteor mash and earthquake. more of a defensive set though, and better done by bronzong with gyro ball (e.g. "gakushuu").
-cm jirachi: different breed of attacker, same attacking potential.
-combination flinchhax/wish support jirachi. i'm toying with one for my new team, it's a neat semi-offensive team supporter.

which do you want?

rmt stands for rate my team, so anything i write up labeled "rmt" is written up for the express purpose of criticism and improvement. i'm not a perfect teambuilder, you know. ;9
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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:20 pm

Charlotte wrote:
i'm not a perfect teambuilder, you know. ;9
Oh, don't lie like that Rolling Eyes

Anyway, I was actually looking at the CB Jirachi on Smogon, so I'm glad you brought that up. Seems to be a good set, has that Thunderpunch we were looking for, and the CB is sure to catch people off guard, especially on GTS+. That and the thought of Jirachi using physical attacks is too hilarious for words.

That's my vote, but if you think Gross would still be a better option overall, I think I'd probably go with Agiligross.

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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:02 pm

actually i was going for cm--calm mind jirachi. it's formidable lategame, to say the least.

would you rather use it or agiligross?
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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:07 pm

CM Jirachi sounds fine to me. I think I just want a chance to use Jirachi now XD

Will this particular model be Wishing or Subbing?

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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:15 pm

I think Miltank would be awesome. With Milk Drink, Roll Out and moves of you choice, attach a heal bell to her, you got a fast, HP, damager.
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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:28 pm

Dragon wrote:
CM Jirachi sounds fine to me. I think I just want a chance to use Jirachi now XD

Will this particular model be Wishing or Subbing?
on paper, substitute is much safer on cm jirachi, but it really depends on the team setup. fortunately, the substitute tm is very easy to obtain, so switch back and forth as you see fit. i'll evaluate the difference between situations where that's appropriate in rmt #3.
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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:31 pm

Oh, yeah, I should have said earlier: Items/TMs are not a problem. I can get a large number of both really quickly and easily via AR, so don't worry about that. Same goes for Heart Scales, obviously, since they're items, too.

So ye, just do whatever fits best What a Face

Edit: Oh yeah, I'm really pissed now because I just got a Deoxys-S with these IVs

Hp - 26
Atk - 29
Def - 26
S.Atk - 4
S.Def - 31
Spd - 31

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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:49 pm

Who did u get it off? Or was it AReplayed? You could always use pokesav (just don't make all the Iv's 31).

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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:59 pm

I got it off some guy on GTS+. It's a legit one from some Gamestop event, and now that you mention it, it would be easier just to have used Pokesav, but that would go completely against my standards. I almost had to do that for Starmie, but thankfully there was a way to compromise...

Edit: Well, I decided to just Pokesav the damn Starmie. It'll kill me inside, but it's for the best, I guess...I think if I do use Pokesav for anything else, I should just keep it to the two (or three, if Jirachi's in) Legendaries so I don't have to bother covering them up with legit ones.

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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:18 am

Just don't tell booger, he will be soooo P*&%sed off.

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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:04 am

Actually, I'm rethinking the decision right now...well, I'll see if I can't get a legit one with good enough stats. I'd rather have that, anyway Neutral

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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:20 am

Snakehead wrote:
Just don't tell booger, he will be soooo P*&%sed off.

lmao.

Booger only acts pissy about that, he uses AR and Pokesav all the time. He doesn't make anything that isn't battle legal though. He thought that if he acted like he hated them, no one would suspect him of doing it.

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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:04 pm

My starmie has 31 spd, spdef, spatt, and hp. With 9 attack...

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PostSubject: Re: project dragon: the 15 pool   Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:09 pm

Snakehead wrote:
My starmie has 31 spd, spdef, spatt, and hp. With 9 attack...
Is it legit? Shocked

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