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Charlotte
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PostSubject: "success"   Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:23 pm

ikki tousen offensive

overview


intro
since i don't really do shoddy battle anymore, here's an rmt that really worked for me while i still did. i beat a pretty number of ladder leaders using it, and maybe the metagame's changed by now, but i believe it would still be a tough team to outpredict and take down. i also renamed everyone after my favorite characters in ikki tousen to somewhat reflect their roles.

game plan
virtually all out offense. leading with gyarados puts the opponent on the defensive from square one, and if i can't start dding from the outset, it's either switch to bronzong to take out the fast offensive counters, switch to jolteon to absorb the electricity and set up a substitute, or switch to gliscor to wall the metagross/heracross that commonly come in. after that i do my best to pass play back to gyarados and sweep, or, if it's possible, pass play to weavile.

in depth

sonsaku hakufu

gyarados @ leftovers
adamant
intimidate
216 hp, 16 atk, 172 def, 104 spe
-dragon dance
-waterfall
-return
-taunt

name: sonsaku hakufu was the water dragon in ikki tousen: dragon destiny. she's the leader toushi of nanyou gakuen. simple enough.

nonstandard bulkydos lead. i prefer the type coverage offered by water/normal as opposed to the usual ice/ground, and i don't like water/rock because 80 accuracy sucks. tried-and-true, nothing weird here. serves as a very useful physical sweeper in the lategame as well. (on cartridge, i neglected hp evs due to a very low defense iv, and instead equalized def/spdef stats at 219. evs for atk and spe reflect the optimal stats to be reached after one & two dragon dances - 4 extra spe evs on gyarados will allow it to taunt before all standard bulkydos.)

gakushuu

bronzong @ leftovers
sassy
levitate
252 hp, 152 atk, 96 def, 8 spdef (0 spe iv)
-rest
-sleep talk
-gyro ball
-earthquake

name: gakushuu, one of the four devas of nanyou gakuen, is best known for his immensely defensive style and large, heavy stature. very appropriate here.

a special defending wall bronzong for a change, hooray! this is my main status guy: immune to toxic, resists stealth rock and immune to spikes, obviously doesn't care about sleep. with gyro ball, happily takes on the speedy special attackers who are unaware of the slight special defense favor, like gengar and starmie (does more damage with gyro ball than earthquake against starmie, even with the steel resistance). 'zong and heatran often switch in and out with each other, and i've grown to love the usefulness of steel types' many resistances through my battles with this team. (on cartridge, neglected attack in favor of maximizing hp and optimizing defenses. was lucky enough to capture a sassy bronzong 0 spe, so hooray again!)

ryomou shimei

jolteon @ leftovers
timid
volt absorb
6 hp, 252 spatk, 252 spd
-yawn
-substitute
-thunderbolt
-baton pass

name: ryomou is very easily my favorite ikki tousen character. another one of the four devas of nanyou, she fights in a maid outfit, handcuffs are her favorite weapon, and her offense is quick and stealthy. when i'm using a nonstandard jolteon whose aim is to fool the opponent into giving me a free substitute, ryomou is the only character that can really come to mind (except saji genpou, but i kind of hate saji).

happily takes those electric attacks aimed at gyarados and sets up a substitute for him or weavile. alternatively, jolteon comes in after someone dies and sets that substitute up. the counter switches in to a yawn, then jolteon substitutes and passes whenever the time is right. virtually solves my swampert problem, since resttalking 'pert is very rare in my experience. (used to have electivire here. electivire failed me too many times. jolteon doesn't.)

shuuyu koukin

weavile @ expert belt
jolly
pressure
40 hp, 252 atk, 216 spe
-swords dance
-night slash
-brick break
-ice shard

name: shuuyu koukin is the "nasty surprise" fourth deva. he's a moderately fragile, yet immensely powerful fighter, able to hold his own in a rough situation, but without the help of the other four devas, can rarely win. perfect fit for weavile!

ice shard sd weavile loves that substitute, as having one up allows him to boost at least twice in most cases before sweeping to put a little more bite in his stab ice attack. shard over punch because i was having problems with outrage scarfchomp in the lategame. very basic sweeper, nothing new. (i was lucky enough to hatch a 30/30 atk/spe iv sneasel, so 220 spe and 36 hp are the only cartridge changes. i wish my ice punch weavile had a 30 spe iv though.)

toutaku chuuei

heatran @ choice scarf
mild
flash fire
16 hp, 252 spatk, 240 spe
-fire blast
-earth power
-hidden power ice
-explosion

name: toutaku was the tyrant who led rakuyou koukou from behind the scenes. a masochist, evidenced by his constant bandages from his self-mutilation habit. he demonstrated his immense attacking power and abilities from time to time, but most often allowed his minions to carry out his orders - a bit characteristic of scarftran. toutaku changed his fate by committing suicide instead of allowing ryofu housen to kill him, and what better name to put on an exploding heatran?

mild and 240 spe to compensate for hidden power ice legality issues. fire blast instead of overheat, better damage over 2 turns especially with either a sub or flash fire, accuracy i don't outright hate. earth power for other heatran, explosion as a last-ditch effort (useful in that it takes out swampert in the late game, or at the very least puts him in ice shard range). (on cartridge, i had a 31/29/16 atk/spatk/spe heatran, so i ev'd just enough to outrun adamant dugtrio. not optimal, but it'd get the job done.)

ukitsu

gliscor @ leftovers
impish
sturdy
252 hp, 6 atk, 252 def
-stealth rock
-ice fang
-earthquake
-roost

name: ukitsu, of gogun koukou, spent her time looking out for sonsaku while she was alive. ukitsu usually fought hampered with 40kg weights on each limb, only taking them off to fulfill her destiny and challenge sonsaku. in the end, ukitsu sacrificed herself to save sonsaku's life. quite characteristic of gliscor.

as a physical wall, gliscor rounds off this team very nicely and provides a bit of extra frustration for the opponent. neutrality to stealth rock is a solid exchange for resistance to fighting (weavile) and immunity to ground (heatran and jolteon); roost off damage when in the deep yellow. earthquake and ice fang provide solid coverage and have really helped me finish off battles when it's just gliscor versus someone else.

conclusion
i don't plan to change any of this, really, since i won't really be using shoddy anymore, and obtaining a 70 base power hp grass mild electivire isn't exactly easy on cartridge. i have everything fully trained except gliscor and jolteon, and if i ever get wifi, this will be my battling team. so if you guys have suggestions, i won't be doing any moveset changes, but i can really use some alerts as to situations, or certain pokemon i might have difficulty with that i haven't talked about yet.


Last edited by Charlotte on Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: "success"   Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:58 am

Looks very nice... ( so nice in fact i might have to use this on my diamond cart).

I've got a mild electivre if you want to have it and keep breeding till you get one with a hp grass with 70 base.

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PostSubject: Re: "success"   Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:26 pm

I vote for win.

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Charlotte
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PostSubject: Re: "success"   Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:09 pm

thanks guys
i'd like to thank the academy, etc. :')

snakehead, thanks for the offer; maybe i'll take you up on it when the time comes that i can use wifi. i really wish i had access to a hotspot (or that gamestop still stocked the little usb things).
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PostSubject: Re: "success"   Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:36 pm

I have a long, angry story about those Nintendo USB ports and Gamestop. It's not that they don't work, it's just what I had to go through to get it. >_>

Anyway, yeah. Really solid team, I must say. I'd make myself a copy of it on cartridge and mess around with nubs over PBR but alas I've been too indulged with my visual artistries to pay much attention to Pokemon as of late Neutral

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PostSubject: Re: "success"   Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:32 pm

this story, i would like to read it.
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PostSubject: Re: "success"   Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:25 pm

Glad to see. Unfortunately, I haven't finished it yet (and it's a manga-style graphic novel), but that's what I'm taking the opportunity of this summer to do. I have a general overview of the plot conceived, and roughly 35% of the overall plot solidified.

I am, however, doing some character art for it now (for teaser purposes/my own artistic growth/and boredom) and you can find that at my deviantART page.

Just started trying vector art (since I recently got Photoshop). Love it I love you

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Charlotte
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PostSubject: Re: "success"   Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:59 pm

i was actually talking about your long, angry story there
but i do also look forward to your graphic novel. :)
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PostSubject: Re: "success"   Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:51 am

Ok, so I'm on this other forum right? And they have this little "Pokemon League" of sorts. And naturally, I feel like challenging. They're a bunch of pushovers, too. They all have "themed" gyms like the game. Plus, half the people on the forum didn't know that a Burn status cuts Attack.

But I digress...I need to create a party that can take out ANYTHING. Luckily, there's a little leeway there as to register I need 15 Pokemon in all. So you think there's a 15 Pokemon combination that can handle anything?

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Charlotte
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PostSubject: Re: "success"   Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:49 pm

Dragon wrote:
So you think there's a 15 Pokemon combination that can handle anything?
theoretically, this ikki tousen team can take on anything in the metagame. husk's team astral projection, which is undefeatable "when played correctly", has little to say about the gliscor-bronzong walling combination and can't defeat bulkydos as long as i play it right as well. cutting down endless copies of husk's team is what actually got me bored of playing OU.

i'd say that if you want to be able to choose from a pool of 15 pokemon, an all-offensive battling strategy would be optimal. my personal pool consists of this team and the special attack oriented team, so if i were to suggest a place for you to look, this RMT and that one would be the first places i would suggest. obviously, team astral projection is also a good place to start if you're looking for a strong offensive.

i do also have another potentially successful team brewing in my mind right now, which might help (roserade, gliscor, machamp, gengar, flinchkiss, specstran). it's somewhat offensive, but very D/P "bulky sweeper" oriented; the idea is to set up tox spikes with roserade, sr with gliscor, block rapid spin with life orb gengar, force switches using dynamicpunch machamp, and sweep with specstran and flinchkiss. i'll post an RMT either later today or sometime tomorrow so you can examine the new team more in-depth.

these are all just ideas so far - if you have anything in particular in mind that you want to do with your 15-pokemon pool, those would help me shape your pool much faster. also feel free to let me know if you need this by a certain date or time.
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PostSubject: Re: "success"   Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:46 pm

Dragon, have you battled any of them yet? If you have how did you do? What website is it.... i might have a crack at them.

Offtopic;
Charlotte i have a bit of a request, do you think you could use your super, inhuman, pokemsnical mind to work to create a 6v6 water team? I have already got a 3v3 team (milotic, swampert, starmie) but i think 6v6 would make it open to more battles. Sorry for invading your thread.

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PostSubject: Re: "success"   Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:15 pm

Jesus H. Christ.

Alright, now then as for the team, I can't think of anything to really help shorten the list of Pokemon (for once), but I do agree that all out attacking seems to be the best way to go. I do like the idea of Bulky Sweepers, though, since in my Trick Room team (which I finished two days ago Very Happy) I use Porygon2 partially as a Bulky Sweeper and it's done wonders for me. It even survived Camerupt's STAB + Life Orb boosted Earthquake :O

But yeah, just a general 15 that can cover everything pretty well would be great. Only other thing to keep in mind is that some of the Pokemon they use will be UU, since it's hard to make a mono-type team from just OU/BL. But other basic rules apply and some gyms have quirky little rules to work around (i.e. the Water gym requires the use of at least one water-type *coughgyaracough*).

But one more thing to mention is that they're tier system is slightly different in regards to Deoxys-S (or E, whatever you call it) as he may still be considered Uber there. I'm looking into it now, since I'd really like to use him, so I'll get back to you on that later...

And Snake, this be the forum of which I speak.

And Charlotte, what's the anime you based your teams new names off of?

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Last edited by Dragon on Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: "success"   Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:23 pm

Snakehead wrote:
Charlotte i have a bit of a request, do you think you could use your super, inhuman, pokemanical mind to work to create a 6v6 water team? I have already got a 3v3 team (milotic, swampert, starmie) but i think 6v6 would make it open to more battles. Sorry for invading your thread.
it'll be tough to set you up with a defensively sound team if all those three are absolutely necessary to be included. to maximize the defensive typing possibilities, having a lineup with gyarados, swampert, ludicolo, lanturn, empoleon/tentacruel, and kingdra will prevent you from being utterly destroyed by a single grass- or electric-attacking sweeper like deoxys-s. physical sweeper gyarados, special wall empoleon/tentacruel, physical wall swampert, special sweeper ludicolo, mixed sweeper kingdra, team support and boltbeam lanturn. (note that with these six, there isn't a single glaring weakness to be seen.)

that setup should be fine type-wise, although it's missing some potentially important elements like team recovery support (wish vaporeon), a solid sleep absorber (milotic), true defensive prowess (suicune), or something that isn't outright slow (starmie, who doesn't need rain dance to outspeed key threats like salamence, garchomp, infernape, etc.)

write up an RMT thread for your 3v3 team and i'll see if they're usable.
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PostSubject: Re: "success"   Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:49 am

advice on "modding" team ikki tousen for potential metagame changes

suggested mods of my own.
these all take into account the elimination of garchomp and deoxys-s from the metagame, though certainly these mods can succeed in current standard play.


gyarados @ leftovers
adamant
intimidate
80 hp, 252 atk, 176 spe
-dragon dance
-waterfall
-earthquake
-ice fang

with garchomp gone, 269 spatk is no longer a key number, and bulkier starmie are possible. thus, it is prudent for gyarados to become more offensively oriented herself, as bulkydos lacks the ability to hurt these revamped starmie with less than 4 dragon dances. maxing attack allows you to hit starmie very hard, with a sure 1hko after 2 dd's, and alternatively, a 1hko after starmie has taken stealth rock damage twice. forcing starmie out with opposing team members is not difficult, as jolteon and weavile both threaten a 1hko, and bronzong can explode if need be. this gyarados also increases in usefulness to stop the rapidly rising bulky ddmence, who is easily ohkoed with ice fang (so long as attack is not -1 or lower).


bronzong @ leftovers
sassy
levitate
252 hp, 152 atk, 96 def, 8 spdef
-stealth rock
-gyro ball
-earthquake
-explosion

restalk bronzong becomes somwehat inefficient in a world where countering deoxys-s and garchomp is not an important issue. setting up stealth rock takes advantage of the fact that gyarados is often switching out from gengar and starmie early game and looking to bronzong for defensive backup. explosion, on the other hand, allows you the freedom to take out an extra important team member of your opponent's, most notably gyarados, who usually sets up on bronzong with impunity. this also allows you the freedom to set up rocks and lose turns on the likes of blissey and swampert, knowing that you can severely maim both of them with an explosion to spare (heatran).


gliscor @ leftovers
impish
sand veil
252 hp, 248 def, 8 spe
-knock off
-earthquake
-ice fang
-roost

basically the same set, but without stealth rock, since bronzong usually sets it up. knock off is always an excellent move, and i would have used it on the old set if not for the presence of stealth rock. it helps to keep lucario from being altogether overpowering, as gliscor doesn't 100% counter lucario. knock off also supports the team in dealing with heracross, who is less effectively countered if gyarados is no longer using bulky EVs. an extra EV investment in speed beats opposing gliscor, who are also rising in popularity with the absence of garchomp.

as the metagame changes, there is very little that needs to be done to this team, taking into account the excellent type synergy. merely adjust movesets and ev spreads for efficiency: if you find yourself switching into gliscor much more, give it stealth rock and let bronzong take hypnosis. lead changes are also possible, since with the exception of gliscor, all of these pokemon make excellent leads: if gyarados leads are common, lead with jolteon. if you find problems with focus sash leads, use a fake out weavile (rebred, of course). need a sturdier, more supportive lead? bronzong's your guy.

overall the idea is to sense the shift in strategies, and to observe your own playing style, and analyze it for efficiency. i made these mods when i found that restalk bronzong could not deal with dual screen deoxys and suicide/sr leads effectively, and seeing as he was my number one switch in on these pokemon, i allowed him the honor of setting up rocks for my team, as more often than not he had ample opportunities to do so. restalking bronzong was also somewhat redundant in the offensively-oriented metagame, since bronzong is the only pokemon on my team who doesn't care about taking hits while asleep. it also granted my opponent free turns anyway, due to the unreliability of restalking.

whatever metagame you play, just observe the trends and build your teams accordingly. it is difficult to build one team that can counter every possible metagame, but on the other hand it is easy to choose six pokemon with good type backup and tons of potential.
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